Why the Springbok Ceiling Is Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu and not where the Boks are now

0:02 Talking Boks, proudly driven by Toyota. >> When there's tough to be done, there's the new generation Hilux. >> We're back. It's Talking Boks, proudly driven by Toyota. We had a week off like

0:16 the Springboks. If you've been watching their socials, you'll see they've been brying, shaving heads, and dig all sorts of other things. But they're in Australia at the moment. They're in a place called Teragal which is one of

0:27 their going to be one of their bases for next year's World Cup and uh lots of South Africans there and it's at very much just outside what they call Perth Fontaine. Rassie's named a very very interesting team and with me as always

0:40 is Nick Mallet and Gavin Rich. Uh maybe Nick, let's start with you. All change in that team. Um everybody who didn't get a a run basically. Um and and uh a lot of guys who got a chance now to to make a claim who missed out on playing

0:55 against the All Blacks. Uh but I suppose there is a danger in that because a lot of them haven't really had that many minutes this season and haven't played that much for a number of weeks now. Yeah, it's a it's a you know it's an

1:08 unusual collection and that he's made what is it 13 changes. I think the only two guys who started and hooker. Um obviously it's giving opportunities to guys. Uh you know we can never talk about a a box A team, B team or C team.

1:23 It's about it's about getting three players in each position who can um ensure that the box will still um play at the same level no matter who plays um in those positions. And I think what Rasi is doing is giving an opportunity

1:39 to um well obviously he he's giving an opportunity to all the guys who didn't play against the All Blacks but but also um you know guys who haven't played for a while. So a guy like Pollard hasn't played for a while. the hersel Yankees

1:52 hasn't. Um you've got uh I think Paul Devil was the last game was his first game um in in the rugby um that against the All Blacks and and he played in the first test. I I can run through it. I mean Fasty hasn't played recently. So, a

2:12 number of these players are really are going to be um going in a bit green and um we saw what happened in our first test against the All Blacks when we went in without having played together. So there is a risk to this but um I think

2:28 it's counterbalanced by the fact that Australia aren't New Zealand and uh you know we we we talking them up and we're trying to be as positive as we possibly can but they are I think seventh in the world at the moment and uh so we're

2:44 having a look to see whether these players who've been selected are up to matching away from home a team that's hosting the World Cup. I mean, it's a big ask. Let's let's not uh let's not dodge it. It's a I think it's it's a

3:00 it's a very big um a big ask, but uh these guys will be incredibly motivated to show Rassie that they mustn't forget about them when he puts that team together, the squad together for the 2027 World Cup.

3:16 >> Gav, just one one thing that stands out for me, and Rassie mentioned it in his press conference this morning, he's expecting a lot from Marov and Starden. They're expecting a big threat at the wabes at the breakdown. We know how good

3:26 uh Carlo Tazano is and and and the walabby loose forwards are Marco Falin at eight is a very interesting one. We know the box like to go with a with a seven a player at seven that they can use in the line out Elri Lo there but

3:39 Paul Dez and Marco and Stalin hunting that ball together is quite an interesting prospect. Well, Rassie's dating back to his days when he coached the Stormers and if I remember correctly, it was 2012

3:53 h 2012 201. In fact, Rassie wasn't involved in 200 so would have been 2011. Um, uh, Dwayne Fermuan was injured and and and Rassie chose what was then a hooker in in Dion Fere as a number eight. And a lot of people sort of

4:09 questioned that. I remember people questioning that and he explained that a number eight cuz cuz he's got that fetcher, you know, we talk about fetcher ball scavenger and Rassie explained that if you're at number eight it's easier to

4:20 go both sides and you know cuz then you're not obviously if you're on the blind side it's further to run to the open side and all that. So, so it's it's it's not new from Russie to to to choose a a guy like that as a as a number

4:31 eight, but it's a it is a very interesting selection and I suppose it talks to what Rassie feels is are the strengths of of of the Australians. I mean, they have traditionally been very good at the I mean, I could run off a

4:43 whole a whole number of um of openside flankers they've had over the year going back to that guy from the Brumies. What was his name? George. Uh anyway, you know who I'm talking about under Eddie Jones way back in the George Smith.

4:55 Yeah, George Smith going back to those guys and then going through full war and and and and company. Um, yeah. So, so yeah. So, so that that doesn't surprise me. Um, I agree with Nick. There's a little bit of a of a risk there because

5:08 we did see what happened at Ellis Park in that first test of the RGR series. And in that test, what we learned was that um we we do need a little bit of continuity sometimes. Although I don't know what you know remembering that

5:23 before the all before that first all black test the box the box squad had actually been split because um part of the group had gone to Argentina to play that game at Buenes Iris. So they they weren't always together and that these

5:37 guys have been together. So that team's probably been training against the the other spring team within the camp for the last couple of weeks. So, so, so I'm not sure how much of a risk there is as well because uh when you look at the

5:50 bench, I mean that's a that's a very powerful bench. I mean, if you look at basically the first choice front row is there still. Uh you've got Laga on the bench. In fact, in fact, when I look at a rugby team, I often think of the locks

6:01 as the sort of like, you know, people talk about the core of the team being this or that, but to me like if you've got strong locks, then then you've got a strong team. And we've got an incredibly experienced trio of locks and Franco

6:13 Mustett and Lertz coming in off the bench. And then we've got our first choice front row to come on in the second half if if if we if we're in trouble. Uh so so I don't know how much risk there really is there Brenden. It's

6:26 um uh there is there is risk obviously that you're playing against Australia in Australia. I mean it's not no Mickey Mouse team and and I don't know in my early days of my rugby writing I used to travel a lot with the box and I think

6:38 that that win that we scored in two in 1998 under Nick in a rainstorm at the Subaka Oval might have been the only one I ever watched live. So it's not like a place where South Africa just go and automatically and we were lucky to win

6:51 that game. I think Nick would agree. Um, so I I don't I don't think it's a it's a um it is a risk because you're playing us against Australia in Australia and we don't have to have a very long memory to remember the last time we played a well

7:04 the second last time we played Australia was Ellis Park and got a good hiding there. >> Yeah, it's a they are a dangerous team if they get enough ball. It's a it's interesting. Uh I mean this whole team

7:16 is very interesting. Hersel Yankees partnering. Uh Andre Polard at 10 is is at at Halfback is also an interesting one, Nick. Um and then Andre Estasen as as as captain. Now Rassie did explain in the press conference that they he they

7:32 could have given the captaincy to half half dozen guys and they it was more looking sort of at at what happens in the World Cup if you have a couple of injuries and you have to have somebody like that. I suppose in the one way he

7:44 he improved themselves last year when he captained in the Sharks and on another one he is a vitally experienced player and that old thing of not having a player too far from the action he'll be a lot closer to the action probably in

7:55 the second half when he moves to the forwards which we probably expect. >> Yeah, with with regard to Herskll Yankees um you know if you think about him he's he's technically an outstanding scrum off. He's very very quick to the

8:09 breakdown. He's got beautiful passing skills and he's got a a dangerous break if you give him half a chance. So, you know, giving him an opportunity uh I think you know obviously you've got Rick and Monberg

8:22 as well as Grant Williams there. So, he's getting an opportunity. He's been on you know with the with the team for a long time and um and obviously you got Monour Funberg on the bench to come off the bench in the second half. So I think

8:37 that's that's a good opportunity for for Hershel. And as for the captaincy, I've been interested that that that Russia always chooses experienced players, guys who've got lots of caps, who's setting a good example for the rest of the squad.

8:49 I mean, a Peter Stephy isn't your go your go-to captain in my view. It's he leads with by example rather than perhaps through his words because he's quite a quiet guy. But um but you know we've had we've had you

9:07 know dander I think we've had Peter Stephy obviously Sia Kesi every time he plays he's captain but we can go through Pollard I think is captain the team. So there's a very very broad section of players who've had leadership

9:21 opportunities and I think it's probably to give um a bit of recognition to Estasen for how unselfish he's been in his rugby career with the box. He's been quite prepared to go to loose forward uh if he has to. he's um you know filled in

9:36 at well he wants obviously his position is center and uh and he and he knows that he has a far better chance of getting on the field if he's a hybrid player and I think that that sort of is that speaks to the way in which that

9:49 spring team um uh you know the makeup and the culture in that spring team is unselfish is the doing whatever you can for your for your mates and and so I think it's giving him that sort of recognition and he is a very experienced

10:05 player, 32. He's been at Harlequins all those years uh and and uh and and played for the Springboks numerous times. So, I don't think the captaincy is such is such a big surprise. I mean, I just think sometimes I mean, you know, the

10:19 front row, we we're starting young Hendrickk Wessels there at Loose Head. We've been speaking him up as a as a hooker maybe to take over from Markx. So is that also to work on a hybrid to see whether he can he can really frank up in

10:33 an international game as a loose head for the first 40 minutes at least. Um you know Zack Pton last time he played he he was put under pressure uh by the all black front row and uh you know they didn't put they didn't put our front row

10:50 under pressure in the rest of the test match. So that's a scrummaging lesson that he would have learned and and I think it's probably getting him back in into the saddle a little bit and say okay get back into international rugby

11:01 let's make sure that you know your um improvement as a scrum you've retained it and that you can and and we can count on you because your general players outstanding and if you look at those front three um in in the front row they

11:14 are very good in the tight loose all three of them. It's the scrummaging aspect um that that there'll be a question mark around and uh and we've certainly got backup uh for you know if we bring out our front row the top front

11:28 row there's no problem if if if our scrum is not working we've got we've got a solution on on the bench I agree with with um I agree with Gavin about the tight five you know having L fun laga rather has got um tremendous experience

11:43 in coming off the bench he'll be dying to show that you he deserves the starting spot with within. Um, you know, he's up against obviously Nokia and you've got and you've and you've got um Mosett getting back to full fitness. So,

11:59 it's exciting. I would I would have thought Cameron Hanukum would have got an opportunity because I rate him so highly but maybe he's already had his chances and now they're looking at Marco from Starden and are going to measure

12:12 his performance against Cameron Hanukcoms and uh against against Paul Devil and against everyone else and work out you know you know who they can really count on as that openside flanker or as a number eight. Both are fetchers.

12:27 You know Cameron Cameron Hanikcom has shown that he can fetch it. He plays number eight or if he plays seven and and equally Marco Fardan can do the same. He's a he's very direct obviously he's physically very powerful in the

12:38 carry. Um but perhaps not with the evasiveness of of a Cameron Hanle but that bench is very very strong. So if if we in trouble you know we can we can get I mean you've got fascia there as well you know so it's a it's it's an

12:53 outstanding bench to come to come off the bench if we require it. Gav, the the one thing that interesting with Nick talking about the front row there. Um, if I remember right, uh, we played Yan Andre Wessels and Yan Corblau

13:08 against Australia in Australia I think a year or two ago. There was one of their first tests uh, as as on the front row as well. Uh, but that's the one thing that we've spoken about it before on this part. The the backup hooker hasn't

13:20 been uh, you know, sort of nailed down yet in that squad. And if you look at this this team, you you could I suppose you could make the argument quite quite clearly that if you take the group that played against the All Blacks in those

13:32 four tests and you take these guys, the changes they've made now, you can only take 33 to the World Cup. So this would be the de facto if you put those two together. Um so almost World Cup squad in waiting and and so a lot of those

13:46 guys can do themselves a lot of good especially a guy like Yan Kro and Yan Hendrik Wessels. The one caveat that was quite interesting that Russie dropped um which I didn't tell you a bit earlier when after I was on the press conference

13:58 was that he said somewhere in the second half you might see Malcolm Marks going to Flack and Yan Hendrik moved across to Hooker which is a very interesting one if they're going to do that the world's best player. Um but yeah this is the

14:12 type of game you probably expect Rassie to experiment a little bit. Well, Vango is my theory then because I was thinking when I was when when Nick was talking just now, I was thinking about how mobile the starting pack is and I was

14:22 thinking that what Rassie was almost doing was the well, not the reverse because it is what he did in Cape Town. I mean, what he what he didn't do was announce it, but remember he basically chose a very sort of he he started with

14:34 a with a more mobile front row uh with Dion Fere there obviously and not and not Yan Kubla. Um, and I thought, well, maybe he's going to like reverse it, reverse it this time. But if Malcolm Barks is going to flank, then then bango

14:49 bang goes that theory. Um, yeah. You know, what's interesting to me is I watched um I watched Breakdown on Sunday, the the New Zealand um magazine rugby program and and Kevin Put was on, you know, the former Sharks Scrum half.

15:03 I remember as the Mr. Scrum half. other people who are younger than me probably think think of him just as a coach, but uh you know I remembered him as a player and and and and ke was on and and and Jeff Wilson and and Mills Miliano and

15:16 and the big question on that program was what is the boxer's ceiling and Jeff Wilson was was saying that no the boxer's ceiling they can't really go that much higher because he sort of felt that you can only choose 23 players and

15:30 he felt that the players that we played in the series were the best players. has um that that we have and that was our strongest 23 and Kevin put funnily enough um countered by saying no he he disagrees he says that the Springboks

15:43 have guys that can replace those players so so you know they've got almost like equal strength players to replace some of those guys so so this in a way is a game that that that will prove that to me um well not prove that but it could

15:57 be a statement performance if the Bucks go out and win well against Australia and they effectively I know I know what Nick's saying you can't say well this is a top box team and that's not the top box team but when you make 13 changes it

16:09 is hard to and you make 13 changes from the team that won the RGR series then it's hard to contend that this isn't the second string team if you if you know what I'm saying because because they I mean he's made 13 changes and we know

16:22 how important the RGR series was so so this is an opportunity for those guys and I mean I'm excited you know I always get quite excited about Canan Moodie playing playing in the midfield because I remember the the big wins he's been

16:33 involved in in the past uh notably against the All Blacks. Um to me it's an exciting team and and and just shows how strong South African rugby is because you know we've got Andre Pollard a double World Cup winner at at Fly Half

16:48 and actually I would answer that question if I was asked by the people on the RG on the sorry on the breakdown program where's the Springboks ceiling I would say the ceiling is actually Sacha Sacha Feinberg-Mngomezulu's ceiling

17:02 because he hasn't really kicked on yet from where he was this time last year well where how much we would expected him to have kicked on. We all know he's got the potential to be the best flyhoff in the world. We're all expecting him to

17:14 be the best flyhoff in the world at next year's World Cup. But both at Stormer's level and at Springbook level, there have been times when he hasn't been completely perfect and where you feel he's got he needs more time in the

17:26 saddle to to to develop his decision- making abilities. And I would say that the box ceiling actually is that guy. If if that guy gets as good as he can really he can become, then the the the box ceiling is almost unlimited because

17:40 of what he can what he can do for the players around him. If he gets into that point where he's actually properly matured and then we can properly say, well, he's now got to the point where he's mature enough to where we can can

17:52 compare him to Dan Carter, which we were doing last year maybe a little bit prematurely. >> Nick, I want to get your take on what Gavin just said there on Jeff Wilson's comments. I know you were with him the

18:02 week before on the breakdown show as well. Uh it's interesting because the first thing I thought about when Gavin said that and when when I watched the show was um was pretty much wasn't that what we used to say about the All Blacks

18:13 when they were dominating world rugby. But yeah, they can only pick 23 guys and some should be able to match them. >> No, no, that that's that's the point he was trying to make. He says doesn't matter how many good rugby players you

18:25 got in South Africa, only 23 can be on the in the squad starting every Saturday. So, you know, if you're leaving an Esta Hazen, you know, not in the squad, he can be the he could be the second best inside center in the world,

18:38 but you've got Damian de Allende there, haven't you? You know, and uh and you know, he's he's running through the players that we've got. And we're saying we've got this and we've got that and we can strengthen our team, but he's saying

18:50 it doesn't necessarily mean you strengthen your team. What you do is you replace like with like and that is a big that's something to be said for that because not many countries can replace I mean if we had here you know we're

19:02 looking to replace with someone like him I mean you know probably two of the best locks in the world and you've got still got people like Laga Noia and and and Mos so we we've got you know just a plethora of of of tight

19:18 forwards loose forwards I'm very you know I'm a bit interest I'm interested I'm surprised that they would think of moving Marks to flank. I mean, why? You know, he's our best hooker. Just keep him hooker, get him off the field, get

19:30 another guy on and keep him safe and sound. You know, we really we we we in my view, we really we really need to prolong his career because there isn't someone bashing that door down just yet, you know. Um if if um if you know about

19:45 Sacha, Sacha's big the lessons Sacha has to learn are are game management lessons. He has to understand what quality ball he's getting at what time. So at any given time he should be looking at the quality of ball that's

20:01 been delivered to him and take a decision based on the quality of that ball. If it's a tap ball in the line out and the players are pouring through. Don't pass that ball on to to your backline. You've got to then just take

20:13 it up yourself or or or stick it up in the air if you want to do that and you've got time to do that. If it's really, you know, good ball, then then then you're going to play your backline. If it's uh if it's if if you've taken it

20:26 through two or three phases, you haven't got momentum, fall back on the kicking game that we've got, uh, you know, at our disposal and do it either through the line or through yourself. And it's those decisions that he needs to take

20:38 better, I would say. It's not that he can't do any of it. He can do every single one, but is he doing it at the right time for the players around him? You know, sometimes it might be there for him to break the line because he

20:51 sees a half gap, but there's a four on two and he should pass. You know, obviously you should pass with a four on two. Um, but but you know, if you're looking all the time for that little half gap and that opportunity, he might

21:04 be trying to go for that half gap, which is the wrong thing to do. So, so you know, game management is where he can improve. If I had to look at at at someone like Pollard, his ability to get a backline going needs to needs to

21:19 improve. When he plays, our backline attack is a bit clunky where but he never veers from a game plan. And he's absolutely immaculate in terms of how he decides to kick and when he and he calls the forwards into position and he calls

21:35 uh you know the nine to kick and he'll kick himself those high ones to the open side winger and up and unders that he'll do himself. But just his ability to to take the ball on the run, fix a defender and pass which Mary Livox does so well.

21:50 He he has he hasn't got that or he hasn't shown it recently. He had it when he was younger. Definitely. So, um you know, Sacha, as I said, you know, what Gavin went on about that our our um ceiling depends on him. I would I would

22:07 say that I would say I would agree with that. I would say that once we get nines and tens taking the right decisions for everyone else around them, then we're going to take more opportunities to score tries. And we and we create so

22:20 many opportunities to score tries because we've got such a dominant pack of forwards. >> Yeah. Just just I mean what interesting when while you guys were talking there I was thinking myself and I know he's not

22:30 a spring book yet but um there's unbelievable uh you know sort of mounted talent also in Hashim and Imad Khan. Those two scrum offs the Stormers will have this season and and I suppose they're still year out from the World

22:43 Cup. Uh do I I take it you also believe that uh the the the we will probably only take three scrum offs the world cup so that might not be sewn up totally yet. Grant Williams is the one guy kvis ran from the burger are the three in the

22:56 saddle I think at the moment but there certainly might be a spot open there. Do do you see that still as a thing there? And and or do you think Sacha would probably be better off with a with a more experienced scrumov like Quis Rach

23:09 or you know or Grant Williams around it? Well, it's interesting to me that that Grant Williams hasn't featured again um since that first test where where he was just to tell you he was going to be picked. Rassie did say he was going to be

23:22 picked, but he he's got a back injury and apparently um Rassie said he he opted to stay out another week rather because he didn't feel he was 100% right. >> Okay, cool. Cuz I I would like to see him him play again. I'd like I'd like to

23:37 see him re regain his confidence because he was targeted by the All Blacks in that in that game and in in Joberg and and he and he was shown up. We've got a lot of you know when it comes to if we're going to go back to what they were

23:50 talking about the Springboks ceiling um you know I I would sort of say that the the next cycle is going to be very interesting because the lot of we've got a lot of players at the moment who who we can't really see them going into the

24:02 next cycle. I mean it's like you know they they're doing well to make it to next year. Um and that's when I think the Hashim pets and those guys come into the conversation. I don't think that they come into the conversation just

24:14 yet. I think Immod Khan is probably 2028 project and maybe Immod and maybe Hashim as well and and and and other players. I mean even I know some people tell me he's a bit small but uh you know in time somebody like Ahmed might come through

24:28 as well um as as as a fly half. So, and and Marcus Müller, um, you know, I've watched some of his Curry Cup games, very composed. Um, I know he's only playing Curry Cup, and I add that caveat, but we all know what a what a

24:40 what a what a promising player is, and he's still he's still not 20, as far as I know. So, um, there's the next cycle is going to be a very interesting one. But when it comes to this cycle, I think you correct in that there's 33 players

24:54 that will go to the World Cup and he's chosen 15 now to go with maybe another 18 that were there before. So, so we at the moment we're looking at at at who's going to be in Australia this time next year. Um, not just playing Australia,

25:08 but obviously playing against all the other World Cup opponents. >> Just uh just on just on the one last thing though I want to ask about the the team. Two guys off the bench there. Just maybe briefly from you, Nick. Um, Yasper

25:21 Vista is getting his 50th cap. That's one. And another guy nice to see in that 23 who's also looking more and more like a utility back is Kan Horn. >> Yeah. Uh, I think I think Casper Visa, what a good player. What a great player

25:35 and a brave warrior, great carrier, cheap as he was uh, you know, even even when they did double tackle him, he still came back for more and more and more. he just uh he's an extraordinary uh physical human being uh getting us go

25:50 forward. Um probably the best in the pack at the moment. So congratulations on his 50. It seems to have flown past and and it's unusual I think that a guy who's getting his 50th cap comes off the bench for his 50th cap. Um one usually

26:03 one usually thinks that it's it's an honor and therefore you'd like to actually start the game. But um obviously he's going to be around for a while and he's going to get a lot of a lot of games. So um you know I don't

26:15 think he needs to worry too much about that. And and then Kun Horn an ability to play fullback. He's got a a wing and and fly half. So u so there's a um you know there's a a bright future for him. I'm not quite sure where he fits in to

26:30 the mix because the you've got a fussy who's getting given an opportunity. So presumably he'll get a go in the second half uh there if if uh because you've got that on the bench. So, with three backline players on the bench, it looks

26:44 like he's covering wing and fullback, but but he's a super super player. Really lovely boot, um brave, takes takes it to the line, unselfish, straightens nicely. He's he's got a lot of qualities that uh um you know that

27:01 that we you know that we need and and the players around him appreciate at uh at uh super rugby level. and it'd be great to see that he can bring that to international level. >> Yeah. Lastly, just from from maybe for

27:15 both of you guys, I Perth is the one place I haven't been to in in in my rugby career. Uh it's one place I've missed on all the tours. Just maybe a memory, Nick, you you won there as as as a coach. Um it's very much a South

27:27 African I suppose uh a hot spot there. A lot of ex South African Kurt Fontaine, you being called. just maybe a memory or two quick from both of you and then we'll we'll sign off. >> Yeah, just quickly we when we went to

27:41 our first practice I was amazed about 500 people turned up for our practice and uh you know then we had another one and there were close to a thousand. So there you know there's a very strong South African um expat community in in

27:54 in Perth. Um and then you know obviously the win was uh was uh it was fortunate but um it was time because we were on our way across to try and beat New Zealand and uh you didn't want to lose to Australia and then have to face up

28:08 with a with a difficulty of beating New Zealand after that. So we didn't play well. We it was probably one of the worst games that we played in that in that 98th season. Uh and and we could so easily have been penalized in the very

28:21 last uh move of the game. I think it was Ollie Laru went off thigh. He rolled over and tried to tackle their scrum off as the ball was coming out. I mean, I was convinced it was a penalty against us and the ref didn't blow the penalty.

28:33 You just get lucky sometimes. You know, I've had times when I've been unlucky as a coach and the team has been unlucky, but that was definitely a a moment when um fortune was on our side and we I think we won it by one point and in that

28:48 was a quick tap penalty from us fund of Estes and that took them by surprise. So it was individual brilliance that won it, not great coaching. >> Yeah, I think I think the score I think I think the score there was was 1312. It

29:00 was it was one point. If it was 1312, it could have been 154, but I'm I'm sure it was 1312. It was a very very wet and miserable day. And I what I remember is some of the Bach players telling me maybe not so much at the time, but years

29:13 later that Mick at the at the um at the wash up session on the Monday used all the exploiters that he knows. And we know that when he's not when he's not being polite on here, he he he can't have a toy. He can have a choice choice

29:27 language. Apparently, he basically tore into them at the at the at the at the at the Monday meeting and went at them and like everything that they had done wrong because it wasn't a good performance. And then right at the end of it, he

29:39 said, "Well done, guys. You're the first South African team to win overseas in the tri nation." [laughter] and and and I had to finish on something positive because we were playing all [laughter] blacks the following weekend.

29:52 >> Yeah. And and and my other memory from from Perth is actually very quickly is actually not from Freemant is not from Perth itself. It's from Fremantle. Maybe they're the same place. I don't know. But we played um we played a media

30:04 played we played a touch rugby game against against Nick's management and they tried very hard to set me up to score a try um because they felt it would be a good look for the game. And they they tried to set me up to score a

30:16 try and off I went. I think I got an intercept or something and we had the comrades running doctor France Fer who who cha who chased after me and Nick was shouting leave him alone you bloody fool something like that but he wasn't

30:30 listening he came he came and he caught me so so so my great try didn't happen. So that's my other that's other memory from from free manual. [laughter] >> Gav, wasn't wasn't that I think I've heard these stories amongst amongst the

30:44 journals over the years. Wasn't the hockey game that >> Yeah, you did the hawker and I think was supposed to be a touch rugby game, but Nick tackled Mike Greenway a couple of times.

30:57 I think was being very pleased with himself. So I decided that I'll give him a half gap and then come in from the side. And I gave him a two-handed shove. And I tell you what, he must have traveled at least

31:10 four meters through the air at the time. All those all these things weren't captured on camera. That now that is that's a pity. I must admit this day in time you would have had a thousand Tik Tok videos of those things, guys.

31:24 I think we're going to leave it there. It's it's obviously we'll be back on Sunday after the game. It's a Sunday game, so we'll be recording pretty pretty quickly afterwards as well. So, we'll get you hot a hot take straight

31:35 after that as well. Uh it's been great. I as a guy, I just had to give one shout out. I was yesterday at Halfway Toyota in in in Georgia and just seeing they're wonderfully there's the heritage classic car tours in the Eastern Cape at the

31:47 moment. If you do see the car, say hello to all of them. It was great meeting up with the Toyota guys. So, shout out to them. This is, of course, Talking Boks. It's proudly driven by Toyota, so it's it's always a good partnership. But

31:58 we'll be back on Sunday. Thanks for watching. If you haven't already, please hit that subscribe button. Give us a thumbs up if you enjoyed the video cuz it helps with the algorithm. And we'll see you again on Sunday. Cheers.

32:08 >> When there's tough to be done, you keep moving, driving endless hours with just your thoughts to keep you company. And along that journey, you'll have a silent partner. One that gets to work without

32:24 complaining or hesitating. Because when there's tough to be done, >> is it a Bucky? >> No, >> it's a Hilux. >> There's the new generation Hilux

32:39 >> Talking Boks. [music] Proudly driven by Toyota.